Professional Organizers Do More Than Just Clear Clutter

Professional Organizers Do More Than Just Clear Clutter

Guest: Camille Cazier

Shelley Hunter: You're listening to the Faithful Career Moves podcast. I'm your host, Shelley Hunter. This is a place where we talk to people who recognize the Lord's hand in their lives and specifically in their careers. Hey, everyone, welcome back to the show. I haven't recorded in a few weeks because as I've mentioned before, I'm notorious. As a work-at-home mom, juggling my own career, kids, church callings and more, I have to pace myself and trust that I'll get where I need to go when I need to get there. Here's where I've been recently.

When I interviewed Heidi Benjaminsen, she said something that pushed me in a direction I had been wanting to go, but I needed a nudge. She's a life coach, and I asked her about the transition from helping people, friends, family and anyone who asked to charging for her services. Now, I'm sure you've all heard some variation of the statement that people show up for or value more the things that they have to pay for. Heidi's response was similar but for a different reason. She said the transformation people make when they're willing to invest in themselves is amazing. Her point being that part of paying for services is recognizing that you are worth the investment.

Improving your health, mental well-being, businesses, et cetera, whatever it is you feel inspired to do, well, it's not selfish or a waste of resources if the outcome is that you become a happier, more productive, better version of yourself. To tie that into learnings from a couple of other guests we've had, Linda Evans in Episode 4 said, "Self-improvement or education is the first step towards developing the confidence you will need to eventually serve others with those same skills." Jeffrey Thompson in Episode 6 points out that, "Then you're on the path to finding your calling in life."

I took all of that insight, prayed about it and nervously signed up to become a Gallup-certified strengths coach. If you're not familiar with that, it's simple. This is a methodology that helps you identify your God-given strengths and use them to improve all aspects of your life. Now, obviously, I am focused on the ways in which knowing your strengths can help you find the career you were born to do.

Anyway, a long story almost over, I invested in my own learning, and I gained so much more than I expected. I can't wait to share with you in the interviews ahead. That's coming. For today, I have another story to share. I've recently connected with a cousin who is a professional organizer, and that's a career I've wanted to learn more about. Let me introduce you to Camille Cazier. Camille has spent over 500 hours helping people find greater peace, clarity and control through organization.

She completed the whole package organizing training course for professional organizers and is a member of the Utah Professional Organizers community where she also serves on the board. Her website, which I'll put in the show notes, is cherishyourspace.com. She is so darling, and I am so happy that I got to connect with her. Anybody thinking of starting a business like this can learn from someone who figured out pretty early in life what she was born to do. All right, Camille, what is it that you do?

Camille Cazier: I come into people's homes, I help them diagnose their homes, what their homes really need, because they come to me usually saying, "There's so much clutter. I feel overwhelmed. I don't know what to do." I help walk them through it and figure out what the real problem is. Then most times, we declutter just get rid of-- sometimes it's a lot of stuff, sometimes a little bit and then help them set up systems so that they're not back in the place where they were when they came to me.

Shelley Hunter: I'm learning something already. I would have just thought, "Man, it's a mess in here. I'm here to help you clean it up." You're saying there's a root cause to why there's a mess.

Camille Cazier: Right. Not all of my clients, but some of them, usually have gone through a life-changing experience, whether it's becoming a parent for the first time, losing a loved one, getting divorced. There's a lot of emotions behind their mess. Yes, they have the mess, they know that there's a lot of clutter. A lot of them before have been organized, and so they don't even know how it happened. It's a lot of just working out the emotion behind it, I guess, of why it's happening and how to fix it.

Shelley Hunter: I didn't realize that about it. How did you get into this business?

Camille Cazier: I was at BYU in Provo, and I was taking an interior design class. One of the first chapters that talked about all of the professions under interior design, and there were hundreds, I was actually really surprised, but one of them was professional organizing, and I'd never heard of it before. I looked into it more, and the more I started reading about it, the more I realized like, "This is what I would love to do." It just went from there.

Shelley Hunter: I didn't know it's part of interior design either. Then what happens? How do you get involved in it professionally?

Camille Cazier: When I took that interior design class, I think, if I remember right, that was my last semester. Up to that point, whenever I had a job, I was only there for a few months because I got really good at it, and I loved it. Then I got tired of doing the same thing over and over. Talking about it with my husband, I was like, "I would really love to do this, because I would be in control, it would always be different, and it would fill my cup." I was a new mom.

Being a mom is awesome. I strongly believe you need something else to do so that you can come back and be even a better mom for your child. After I graduated, my husband was still in school, and his schedule was super flexible. It's the perfect and the worst time [chuckles] to just jump into it. My husband was super supportive. I think in all reality, that's why I did it because he was pushing me like, "If this is something you want to do, I think you'd be great at it and just do it."

Shelley Hunter: I love that he supported you in that. Tell me about the certifications?

Camille Cazier: It's actually a pretty new profession. I think about 30 or 35 years ago is when professional organizing became a thing. There's not an official certification. There is a group, it's NAPO. Basically, if you want to become an organizer, you can read books about it, there's multiple training programs, but there's not one that's like, "This means you're a certified organizer."

What I did, I read books, I organized my own house, and then I started asking family and friends if I could come and help them organize to see how it would be outside of my own space. I joined a group that was here in Utah, the Utah Professional Organizers. I got to know other organizers. I did start working with a few of them. It's just a mix of a lot of different ways of learning.

Shelley Hunter: Some self-teachings, some networkings, some trying it out. Here's a question, because I do follow a couple organizers on Instagram, and I have noticed some of them might think, "Holy cow, that had cost a fortune. The pantry is beautiful, but the bins alone had to be hundreds of dollars." What's your approach to that? Is it worth it?

Camille Cazier: Me, personally, and maybe it'll change as my business grows, but for me, the most important thing, especially after having worked with so many families, is that the clutter is gone, and there's a simple system in place. If it's beautiful, that's a huge plus, but really you just need those bones. When I started this business, my husband was still in school. We were the poor college students. When I do see those pictures on Instagram, I know how much those bins cost, every one of them. I know that it is hundreds of dollars.

For me, if my client wants that, that's great, but I always tried to help them be super low budget so that they know that it's not going to be a huge sacrifice financially for them, but that anyone can get organized, whether it's with what you have already or dollar store bins or the super expensive bins from The Container Store. I love the look of it, but sometimes it's not practical.

Shelley Hunter: I think what you said earlier is the more important part, is that the root of why they're disorganized, making it pretty does not fix the problem. Tell me a little bit more about the organizing group that you joined. I would imagine that as a great way to get started and network and meet people. Is there a competitive element to it?

Camille Cazier: It's actually a really cool experience because speaking specifically to the Utah Professional Organizers, it's a group of about 30 women, and we all are organizers, but we all do our businesses a little bit different. There's someone that clears out estates for people. There's other people that work with hoarders. Everyone has their own little corner. It's not so much a competition, and there's so many people that need organization. It's more of a benefit if we work together than trying to just stay away from each other. If that make sense?

Shelley Hunter: Yes, it totally make sense. I imagine you can refer each other to specific situations.

Camille Cazier: Yes, definitely.

Shelley Hunter: Camille, how long have you been doing this?

Camille Cazier: It has been two and a half years.

Shelley Hunter: From when you started to what you're doing now, has it shifted at all?

Camille Cazier: Yes. When I started, I only had one child. It's a lot easier logistically to have things taken care of. My husband, again, his schedule was super flexible. Actually, as the pandemic started last year, things became a little bit more complicated. I was still able to work with me wearing a mask and the client wearing a mask. Then I became pregnant with our second child. That has complicated things, because now, I'm needed more, no one can really replace me.

Shelley Hunter: [laughter]

Camille Cazier: It's figuring out this way to still help my clients but still be a mom first.

Shelley Hunter: Are your clients repeat clients, or is it one and done?

Camille Cazier: It depends. There's a mix. There are some people that-- we work on their home throughout the year. Sometimes, they come once a month or twice, whatever. They have their whole house that they want to do. We just do it a little bit at a time. Some people only have one room that they really need help with. Then I come to their house once, and it is done. It's really just a mix.

Shelley Hunter: I know how hard it is to juggle your kids with a business. You won't regret doing it the way you're doing, even if it means you have to go a little bit slower initially.

Camille Cazier: It's been interesting because with COVID and with having a new baby, I do want to still help people. I've turned my business online, with teaching classes. I teach a class every month on a new organizing skill or a space to be organized. I've turned towards that because I do want to be home. It's complicated to try to work all that out, but it still fulfills me being able to teach people about organizing. I hope it adds value to other people that they're able to learn in a flexible way themselves because everyone is busy. It's a win-win for everyone. It's an easy way for me to be able to help others and an easy way for them to get help.

Shelley Hunter: How does that work organizing online, though? Are you sitting there saying, "Okay, pull that can out. Move that box," or is it more about that thought work you mentioned initially?

Camille Cazier: It's a mix. We talk about the why behind everything, why they want to get organized, what they're really wanting to accomplish. Then, I give them steps, and we do a small project together. Then I let them go on their own, and then we get back on Zoom and go over like, "Do you have any questions now that you've actually done it? Where can I help you?" It's more of a DIY coaching organizing thing.

Shelley Hunter: It actually sounds a little more empowering too because the person is involved. Camille, before we wrap up with my final questions, what haven't I asked you about professional organizing that I should have?

Camille Cazier: There's a difference between being good at organizing and being good at helping other people organize.

Shelly Hunter: Oh.

Camille Cazier: I think it's just important going into it to realize that this isn't your space, it's not your stuff, it's not your emotions, to just be super open and really sensitive, I think, to other people, because they're trusting you to come into their home to see the most vulnerable parts of them, a total stranger and trust you to help them. It's a very trusting, intimate relationship because of how much you get to know them while helping them with their clutter.

Shelley Hunter: What's the emotional outcome that you see once everything gets put in its place?

Camille Cazier: It's really beautiful. It's my favorite part of my job, because I see them frustrated, overwhelmed most times when I come in, and then when we're done, they have this sense of accomplishment and of empowerment like, "I can do hard things, and I'm not stuck where I've been stuck for so long getting more," because like you were saying, sometimes, it's just so hard for them to ask for help. They've needed help for so long and something pushes them to finally ask and then just the relief that they have at the end is so rewarding for both of us.

Shelley Hunter: Can you tell me about a leap of faith you had to take to get where you are now with your business?

Camille Cazier: Honestly, just starting my business was the biggest leap, because like I said before, I was a new mom, my husband was still in school, we didn't really know how much longer we were going to be in Utah. Just having that leap to start it and just be super uncomfortable for a while, while I learned what I needed to do. I feel like when you just jump in, and you're super uncomfortable, that's when you learn the fastest.

Shelley Hunter: What is an unexpected blessing, something you couldn't see for yourself though, in doing this?

Camille Cazier: I think, honestly, just being able to really connect with people on a really deep level. I don't think I expected to really feel the spirit while I was helping people organize. Sometimes, actually, most times, when I'm driving to a client's house, I'll say a prayer like, "Help me to know what to say to help this person," because most of my clients are going through hard things. I just felt this desire to be more than someone that's helping them with their stuff but to be a support for them. I think just having that fulfillment of really being able to be a blessing to people when I didn't think that would even be part of my job at all.

Shelley Hunter: Camille, I keep thinking of a question that I haven't asked my other guests, but it just keeps coming to me, and so I'm going to ask it, why you and why now? Is that make sense?

Camille Cazier: That definitely make sense to me. I think it's something that I've actually thought about before because there have been times when I've thought, "There's thousands, millions of other organizers, why do I need to be one?" I felt like that tortoise before where I'm just getting left in the dust. How true that is? I don't know. From your own perspective, it feels like that. Whenever I do think and pray about that, I feel like the Lord sends me a client that I figure out, "Well, this is why I'm doing this. Other people could help them organize their stuff, but I can help them through those experiences that I've lived"

It's just made me realize that we all do have our own unique things to bring to the table and just because someone else does the same thing as you professionally, it doesn't mean that it's delivered the same way and that they're reaching the same people. I think for me, why me, why now, personally, because why now, I don't think I would do this if I had waited 5 or 10 years. I think I would have been like, "Well, now my kids are there in the middle of this, and so I can't start it." It's really that leap of faith at the beginning that now I know whenever I am prompted to do something, I can do it because I know the Lord will take care of it.

Shelley Hunter: Camille, my final question, how have you seen the Lord's hand in your career?

Camille Cazier: Definitely, one of the ways is getting clients. When I started, I didn't even know how I was going to get clients. I asked everyone when they call me or email me like, "How did you find me?" Some of them say like, "I went through a lot of organizers, but your face stood out to me or your logo or what you said, really spoke to me, I felt like I could trust you." I really feel like the Lord was pointing them in my direction and sending them to me because we needed each other to help with something, whether organizing or a boost of testimony of faith, just all of that.

Shelley Hunter: Which is interesting, because you don't just work with people who share your faith. How does that work?

Camille Cazier: It's really beautiful because I get to love people wherever they are, and it's something that has helped me be more accepting and realize Heavenly Father loves us all. It's a lot easier to love someone when we're serving them and to be able to see through their eyes where they are.

Shelley Hunter: That's beautiful. Camille, thanks so much for being with me on the show today.

Camille Cazier: Thank you for having me.

Shelley Hunter: I don't know about anybody else, but every time I do an interview, I learned something. I'm definitely fascinated by the many ways people earn a living, whether it's working for someone else or starting a business of their own. I find the nuts and bolts interesting. Something Camille said at the end has once again expanded my view of how much the Lord is involved in our careers or how much he can be if we allow it. She said, "Heavenly Father loves us all, and it's a lot easier to love someone when we're serving them."

Now, growing up a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I know this. This is a common mantra among members that we find an increased measure of love for the people we serve or we serve with, but have you ever thought of that in terms of your career? Have you ever thought that the Lord might be nudging you to do something because, yes, it will bless your family and hopefully provide the income you need?

Getting really good at something means you're more likely to increase your sphere of influence, which means you'll have the opportunity to increase the number of people you serve, which then also means you'll increase the number of people you love, not just the people at church, not just your neighbors, and not just those you serve with in you communities, but the people you work with AND work for, as well.

Thank you, Camille, for being on this show and for pointing that out to me, and thank you for listening.

Thank you for listening to the Faithful Career Moves podcast. If you want to know more about how to connect your natural talents and abilities to job opportunities and business ideas, then visit our website at faithfulcareermoves.com. Where we help you identify your strengths and create a custom plan so you can find the career you were born to do.